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What's Live - What's Not?


Post Posted Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:05 pm
matt222


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I always wondered what the Docklands Concert would have sounded like had the rain not resulted in Health and Safety insisting all instruments were turned off and everything mimed

I assume there was an initial intention to play some parts live, judging by the enormous amount of Roland D50 and D550 synths on stage ( Revolutions largely made of sounds from these synths ). If only some old footage of rehearsals existed other than the tiny bit on the making of film

You can always tell a mimed concert and a fully live one. China for instance was played entirely live as can be heard on the radio broadcasts but what we here on the album and on the video is largely studio work. I don't think Perrier's Moog Liberation solo at the end of Magnetic Fields 2 has ever been played live as it is heard on the China and Docklands albums for instance - these are studio recordings. Radio broadcasts of Lyon also have differences with solos reworked in the studio.

The recent Oxygen live was entirely different to the album again

Thoughts?
Post Posted Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:01 pm
Finaero


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I like how the concert backing tape for Industrial Revolution: Overture from Docklands was reused in Concert for Tolerance (if I remember correctly, there's a part in the Machine Run sequence where it sounds like the tape is warped), and how the new CPLT solo from the same track was reused in the Solidarnosc concert 10 years later.
Post Posted Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:50 pm
matt222


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Yes, you can hear the 'new' solo played over the first pass of the chorus which I imagine is live as it's very simplistic to play ( I think it's unnecessary and I don't care for it ) but the original solo is definitely mimed and I doubt has been played live ever - made in the studio and playback ever since.

I have two D50s and two D550s and as you know, have made covers of the Industrial Revolution tracks. Not until the World Tours, have these tracks been played even partly live. The original processing of the D50 sounds on the album were quite unique

Here's my latest effort on that solo https://soundcloud.com/mattc-958632216/ ... lete-cover
Post Posted Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:47 pm
Domestos


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Good work on the solo!

Yes I find it fascinating hearing the difference between the Docklands album, Revolutions, and the radio broadcast. They're all different....

The drums are certainly live on the radio broadcast because there's lots of cymbal crashes and hi-hat flourishes that don't appear on any of the albums. And there's a dynamism to the playing, it just sounds live.

Hank Marvin mimes London kid on the radio broadcast but i'm sure he's playing live during RV IV because you can hear him improvising and like the drums there's just these little subtleties that make it sound live to me. His playing during the chorus is a lot more obvious when compared to the album, and the solo at the end is different to the album. Don't know if this is because he played something different each night or if the solo part was re-done in the studio. I suspect the latter. Are there bootleg recordings from each night?

Don't think the bass guitar is live, but we know Guy Delacroix can play live as he did on the EiC tour and Tolerance. The Docklands video muddies the waters by showing him playing a fretted bass when the sound is fretless, but I think this is just the bad editing by Mike Mansfield.
Post Posted Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:51 pm
Domestos


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My memory might be failing me but I'm sure the now-defunct database on here had a copy of the Oxygene IV backing track from Docklands.
Post Posted Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:48 pm
Finaero


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Love the solo! Also reminds me of thhedk's version of it back in the day, and how it made me realize how "tactical" it was of Mansfield to not show whether or not Dominique Perrier used the pitch bend. ;)
Post Posted Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:59 pm
matt222


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Paul Wiffen who created the Roland D50 sounds for Revolutions ( on request of JMJ after doing so for the Synthex and Rendezvous ) said that although he was involved in the preparations on stage at Docklands, in the end, due to Health and Safety, everything was switched off and the performance mimed. The vast majority of the Revolutions album was played on a D50 and the structure is quite minimal. But the mixing and layering, I doubt they'd be able to keep that to the same quality as the album live

JMJ often gives the game away by thrashing about all across the keyboard which one second is playing one sound then another, while the first continues, and then another etc etc...… anyone who understands the structure of his tracks knows that's impossible!

Lyon, on the other hand, sounds like it had a lot performed live listening to the original radio broadcast

However, the official live albums I believe have a huge amount of post production with lots removed and replaced by studio work
Post Posted Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:10 pm
matt222


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Finaero wrote:Love the solo! Also reminds me of thhedk's version of it back in the day, and how it made me realize how "tactical" it was of Mansfield to not show whether or not Dominique Perrier used the pitch bend. ;)
The Industrial Revolution solo, I believe, due to the differing pitch bends, was a D50 controlled by something else; maybe a MIDId Moog Liberation or Yamaha KX5?? - something with a variable bender

The Magnetic Fields solo, I believe to be Moog Liberation. I doubt this has ever been played live 'properly' as we hear it on the China album, Docklands and La Defense - all playback I believe ( apart from this version … https://soundcloud.com/mattc-958632216/ ... -solo-only

Again the original radio broadcast of the live China concerts doesn't contain it. Later studio work I believe
Post Posted Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:19 pm
Finaero


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Yeah, the solo in EIC/Hong Kong was a bit different and uses a different synth/sound

Which reminds me of how Souvenir of China from Docklands and PLD sounds pretty largely identical, aside from the Docklands version lacking the solo at the end (and how the PLD version was further edited in the Hong Kong album to omit most of the Chinese speech samples). PLD version might not use an ADD-ONE kick anymore either.. must re-check that at some point.

... which further reminds me of how Nico's FTP used to have a studio version of the PLD version of Magnetic Fields 2, which sounded pretty much identical to the actual concert version. Would be nice if other such backing tapes of JMJ's concert tracks surfaced.
Post Posted Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:49 am
chronos


Posts: 79

some fan recording on YouTube shared in another topic, filmed from something tall, gave a good showing of the fireworks and projections. any how, Ethnicolor was interesting. Someone, Dominique perhaps, said bollox to health and safety, plugged his keytar in and gave impropmtu version of the Lyon solo. That was definitely live! Link below, move to 26minutes in.







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