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Latest synthesizer purchase


Post Posted Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:43 pm
Equinoxe


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PHASEREFFECT wrote:My opinion is not a reason to insult me, my friend! Generally i don´t like DSP-driven Synthesizers, whether called Triton/MS2000/Radias or Linux-based machines like the OASYS. According to my opinion it is not art to program different modules into a DSP and then to say: "We invented somewhat new ", only because the DSP´s are getting faster and faster to allow more complex sound structures and more polyphony!! I´m -very- sorry that i don´t own a music store, where i´m able to buy each month a Korg/whatever at purchase price and test each function/sound of their devices. I can say from my side: I´ve owned the MS2000 (which uses the concept of the 1st series flop-OASYS), DSS-1 (where Roland also released in 1986, the S-10 and the S-50-Series, the DSS was -not- the only "Home"-Sampler on the market at this time), two Polysix, the Poly-800 and one EX-8000 and noone of them didn´t convinced me at all! Nowadays one can take a PC with Linux and some Softsynths and is thereby (both concerning the price and from the possibilities seen) probably still better served as with a DSP/"Linux-Synthesizer"! And that not since yesterday! And not everyone has the complete KORG product line at home, only because the own purse is too fat and must be emptied somehow! There are also enough roland/korg devices, which sounds sh*t/incompatible among themselves.

I´ve seen with the eyes of a "normal consumer":
- Oasys (PCI) 1st generation: Flop
- Oasys 2nd Generation: Way too expensive
- MS2000 : Flop (in order to use the remainders, came the MicroKorg on the market)
- Legacy Pack: Flop (even the €199-"sell-out" offers are not sold)

About the M1-"impact": Roland built the JW-50, -i- don´t know why it wasn´t sucessfull (maybe it´s like Windows<=>Linux, as it seems is something automatically good, because it is used by much People)


Do what you want, call me stupid, improbably, crazy or whatever else ( as long as you have fun to do so), but i don´t buy anymore something from KORG. I find the concept, to plug the ulta-possible into a crate, simply only sick (in this connection however nearly all possible manufacturers give themselves "the handle to the hand"). And that i´m not able to buy a OASYS/whatever must be also clear.

Stef

BTW: From where do the sale values come from? From KORG itself?

In no way did i insult you!!!Im just pointing out that what you see in your eyes is not a true reflection on what is fact,you see modernisation of a corporation as repackaged ideas,when in light isnt that all that every manufacturer does..
Korg rebranding the old Digital machines is not a ploy to reinvent the wheel,they merely take a venture into what is becoming common place in many studios nowadays,in that utilising the software market,they see there position in hardware as a prime position but also because of feedback into customer relations decided on software versions of popular machines because more and more users were becoming interested in the software approach,not because they thought they could jump on the bandwagon,infact Korg were going to avoid the whole Software market totally according to the Chairman of Korg JP,he found the idea revolting to try to replace classics with software alternatives,in the end they bowed to pressure and decided on such a device.

The Legacy Bundle is now at a reduced price due to EU directives on recycling issues to do with some of the compononents used in the Mini MS controllor thats why Korg have decided to leave it out of the newer digital edition,they have had to reduce the price in order to help clear up stocks,which is the same with the Next generation of Electribes you can now buy the ER/EA at a silly price.If people are not buying them at that price i would only assume that all those who were interested in it have already bought them previously,the Legacy Digital edition is fast becoming a popular stand alone VST



The original OASYS was not "A flop" it was merely too far ahead of the game at the time and was not well received,because it didnt fit into the generation of Musicial ideas at the time but if you look around now people are after those original PCI based cards because of the fallout of such technology,the original concept has sold well in terms of watered down technology when you look at all the devices that are a product of it,everything from the Trinity to the Triton and everything in between,even the Electribes and MS are part of that concept


The second generation is not "too expensive",when you consider that a filtered version of such technology the "trinity" fully loaded would have cost you on release some mere £3K back in 95 ,would equate to todays monetary terms,about the cost of the New "real" Oasys machine,and at that you get the Full technology not a compacted oasys to reduce costs..

If you bought the same hardware setup with the same amount of processing tools it would probably cost you just as much.Oasys is there to meld it into one machine with less distractions,but Korg havent built this device on the premise it will sell "50,000 units this machine is a product that took 12 years in the making so they can hardly say its there to make them the leader it could have been born at any time in those last years,if you read the literature that Korg released with the Showcase of the oasys you'll see that they felt the time was right to conceive it its real form,not because the price was right,but they finally found it was right time,its not aimed at your average Joe,so korg know it won't be a commercial success if that was the intention I doubt they would have made it at all

with any machine thats released there will always be people who will say,"Yes its what i need but its just too expensive for me"
well korg aim to make those things more affordable to the average joe by releasing cut down versions,llike the MS2K>MK it happens across the board Triton>>Triton Le,manufacture only tend to build initial units them use a supply and demand method so there not stuck with a shit load of units they cant sell,

The sales figure are not from Korg directly these are from various Music manufacturers Journalism,both from several books i have that list sales figures for the most popular synths across history,Korg will give you some literature with sales tags,but dont think there biased cos there not.
Post Posted Sat Apr 22, 2006 5:53 pm
Livgivare


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Location: Sweden, at the middle!

None...I can't have it in my tiny student appartment and I do not know how to play!

Love Leelene
Cool sites look for Livgivare
www.ukcentral.co.uk
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I am mostly afk due to the fact that I have many exams and alot to read and study to get grades right now!
Post Posted Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:01 pm
LeoDaV


Posts: 259

Equin(00)xe wrote:
jarrekid wrote:
GeeJee wrote:Well, you're the Korg guru, so I guess you know it better than I do :D

;)
But don't we all love Korg? :D
I think theres only really me and You Jarrekid....everyone seems to favour Roland with their studio gear...

I have 17 Korg devices....out of that 10 are synths
I don't own a single Roland peice of hardware... :P So that makes 3 ;)
The only Roland I like is the JD800.
J.
Post Posted Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:25 pm
Equinoxe


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I don't dislike Roland stuff i have 4 items (JP8080/AX1/MVS-1/D-50)i just find that they tend to make things far too tedious in their digital machines to do a simple operation,something i find frustrating when i know how to accomplish it,but the OS make everything so much hard work,I want to make music not spend half the time looking in manuals!!

...I used to have a JD-800 too,great machine(when it worked properly)Only thing i felt was a little over the top,that the sliders and controls sent out System exclusive data,Yeh ok in theory,but when your running sequences that are quite demanding with midi data,you either had to filter out certain data sent to the JD800 at the same or you'd suffer from midi choke which would screw up the sequence during critical timings...Standard CC no would have been sufficent..

I've also owned various other roland synths over the years(JX3P/Juno 60/RS-09/JV30/HS10)
I've always stuck with Korg....nothing against roland just my preference....
I also have several Yamaha Devices(QY70/AN1x)
Post Posted Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:06 pm
jeremy


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Posts: 261
Location: Tournai, Belgium

If you have to fight, please chose something more worthy than a brand of synths. :wink:
Post Posted Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:12 pm
PHASEREFFECT


Posts: 181

Ok, Equin(00)xe, sry for all, i won´t move it into a personal fight only because of our personal preferences. I had not much luck with my KORGs, currently i´m more into Roland, maybe the time will come when i prefer Kurzweil (or anything else) more than Roland. You know that i was a long time very happy with my KORGs, specially with my MS2000 (with which i produced 90% of my Songs), but they won´t fit personally for -my- music.

I don´t have anything against actual electronics, but for a high price i also wanna have good electronics and not paying &#8364;200 for a piece of Hardware and &#8364;1800 for the Software. If there a DSP fails after the guarantee time, you can trash it, except you find a dealer which is able to organize such components (which i strongly doubt). What would be useful on a Ferrari, if one must throw him away, only because he needs an oil change? Software is for me -nothing-. Sure, it must be written, but it is only "the means for the purpose". I wouild not have any fun behind a Synthesizer, which does all by itsself and creates "new fields of waves". Making a Song means for me: Do -all- from the beginning with a raw waveform ´til the mastered product. - I- make the music for the synthesizer, not the synthesizer for me. -He- gives me the result the to the task, which I gave him and not the manufacturers, which think that it is a must for them to set up a world-wide valid sound reference in the music production scene.


I program by myself Microcontrollers and i´m overall good into electronics. One program them in assembler, others in C with libraries. If i would program a serial interface, i would need for sure 20/30 lines under ASS, others would need one #include and the built-in command to get the same effect. And so i think it is with DSP´s. If once a library is written, it can be used for 1000 purposes on 500 different (command-compatible) processors, like LADSPA/JACK is being used under Linux by dozens of different applications...their "engineers" simply program a digital reproduction of a analog effect, and, since enough power is given, it is not -that- problem to do this. "Engineers" were a must in the analog era, but not today (then i also must be a engineer, but i´m not one, even i know much).

For me: -If- Korg, then (currently) only a MS/PS/VP

Stef
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:34 am
Equinoxe


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PHASEREFFECT wrote:Ok, Equin(00)xe, sry for all, i won´t move it into a personal fight only because of our personal preferences. I had not much luck with my KORGs, currently i´m more into Roland, maybe the time will come when i prefer Kurzweil (or anything else) more than Roland. You know that i was a long time very happy with my KORGs, specially with my MS2000 (with which i produced 90% of my Songs), but they won´t fit personally for -my- music.


Stef
Who said anything about it being a Fight.....This is being all blown out of proportion here!!!!!!!

I just found it a little odd that you suddenly became disgruntled with Korg,when i know you have praise for the MS2K given that the music we heard from you in the past was mostly modelled around several Korg devices,Obvioulsy you have come to a point in your life where you've maybe had enough of Korg fair enough.
I can understand your criticism of DSP software stuff,knowing your not a fan of software.
People grow out of things,tastes changes ,we grow bored of things for sure,obviously you taken a liking to Roland which is fair enough..they make some great stuff,not too my liking but thats my preference...

Its like me blowing my whistle and slagging off Roland just becuase of one bad experience with a JD-800,thats not really a conclusion on all of Roland Hardware

What problems have you had with your Korgs???thats put you off buying anything else??I Know you have older Korg equipment(poly800/mp7,maybe its time to update your setup stef??
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:11 pm
BnM


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KORLAND : the latest in polymorphing synth design.
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:24 pm
PHASEREFFECT


Posts: 181

@ Equin(00)xe

Hm, several problems. MS2000-thin sound, OS errors (ARP+LFO tempo Sync for example, even with the latest OS), bad effects unit. Polysix-needs too often mainenance (defect 8049 Keyboard decoder, defect 74LS08, defect RAM, power supply errors due defect Capacitors caused by too much heat inside etc), DSS-1, forgot to store the waveform-name used by self-written programs, EX-8000, 2nd Oscillator failure, wasn´t able to repair it (already sold).

I have too old gear, that´s right, but new gear simply cost too much for me. The only useful things i´ve bought the past Year was a RM1X, a MC303 and a JP-8000. I´ve got the RM1X for &#8364;100 because of a ROM-Failure; it only needed a Reset, so i´ve saved here 300-400&#8364;. The JP8000 was in a extreme bad shape; broken keys, missing slider caps etc, but it works now, got it for &#8364;180, saved here also a lot. The MC303 had cost &#8364;150. For one entire year it was not much; there were times; where i´ve bought every month a new device. Then i had to trash the MG1214-Desk, there failed the 14-track tape drive and spare parts were not available. Trahsed also my Akai AX-73 (defect too). Sold also my Peavey DPM SP and my Proteus/1 XR, both less useful devices. The Proteus was not bad, but not the sort of Synths i do prefer; the Peavey missed a SCSI-Harddisk for sound storage and had a too old OS, so i was not able to control it via Sysex from a external editor.

Of course i need strongly a update, but tell me how i should do this with my incoming (consider that i have to pay other things too)....i know that using software would be the best solution for me=>no hiss, no humming; best results etc. I´ve also done some several (ambient/techno) tracks with software, but only for the reason that some Ppl asked for it, with the goal to sell it afterwars and in order to come out from this hole. But it is a high risk; not because of copyrights or tax, more that i get stamped as a techno-kid and that i´m never again able to go back there, where my "musical" roots are. So i have to choose: Living a good life -or- keeping my proud. Both is much worth. And at the moment i tend more to a commercial success, because i cannot buy something to eat with my proud. And i´m also not indestructible.


Stef
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:16 pm
LeoDaV


Posts: 259

Equin(00)xe wrote:JX3P
OOPS! I have an JX3P too... hmmm... imagine how much I use that one.... :)
NOT :] last time was in 1998 :>

Oh... and also the S330... that's Roland too... I kinda like that one...don't use it too often anymore because of my PC... The last time I used the S330 was for MPS Part 2...

I don't really like Roland because of the "Roland"-sound... get a roland machine... lookup the choir sound... listen to it... then take another Roland machine... lookup the choir sound... listen to it... compair it... you'll know what I mean ;) but then some say the same about Korg...

I prefer to look at it this way: sample-loop 'synths' are not real synths. They use a sample as 'VCO' (they like to call it DCO)... I simply prefer other methods of sound generation. That's why I don't like those synths. Not even a KORG if it uses sample-playback....There are a few exceptions ofcource...

So my statement of me owning not a single roland machine was false... must have been be the clouds in my mind...

J.
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:32 pm
radek tymecki


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i love my JX3P :D

btw probably i'll get polysix for few days ;)
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:50 pm
LeoDaV


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radek tymecki wrote:i love my JX3P :D

btw probably i'll get polysix for few days ;)
Nice one! Love the Arpegiator on that machine!
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:31 pm
PHASEREFFECT


Posts: 181

LeoDaV wrote:
Equin(00)xe wrote:JX3P
OOPS! I have an JX3P too... hmmm... imagine how much I use that one.... :)
NOT :] last time was in 1998 :>

Oh... and also the S330... that's Roland too... I kinda like that one...don't use it too often anymore because of my PC... The last time I used the S330 was for MPS Part 2...

I don't really like Roland because of the "Roland"-sound... get a roland machine... lookup the choir sound... listen to it... then take another Roland machine... lookup the choir sound... listen to it... compair it... you'll know what I mean ;) but then some say the same about Korg...

I prefer to look at it this way: sample-loop 'synths' are not real synths. They use a sample as 'VCO' (they like to call it DCO)... I simply prefer other methods of sound generation. That's why I don't like those synths. Not even a KORG if it uses sample-playback....There are a few exceptions ofcource...

So my statement of me owning not a single roland machine was false... must have been be the clouds in my mind...

J.
The "DCO"´s of the JX8P consists of a square wave, which are shaped afterwards in different waveforms (except noise, of course), I don´t know how the square is generated; me thinks by a real DCO (real digital controlled -analog- oscillator). The DW6/8000´s "DCO´s" work with wavetables,

Everyone must know by itself, which synth to use. The older Roland´s don´t have much possibilites, but it depends on the song where he should fit into and since I have a "space"-fetish, they fit very well into mine.


Stef
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:57 pm
radek tymecki


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Posts: 959

last minute news:

i'll receive for some time elka rhapsody 610 and korg delta [broken]. delta will be mine if i'll repair it :D [the lead section is soooooo quiet]
Post Posted Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:10 pm
GeeJee
The GUV'NOR

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You buy synths like you are at the groceries man... doesn't really make sense if you'd ask me... :lol: :P







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