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Les Granges Brullées Deluxe Edition


Post Posted Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:37 pm
rinogurr


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Google Translator:

Digibook prestige box numbered and limited to 3,000 copies. Collection LA SESSION format 142 x 194 mm including 1 BLU RAY and 1 DVD with included 1 booklet 24 pages sewn to the case, reproducing archives on the film, including the reproduction of 10 photos of cinema operations on glossy paper format 120 x 150 mm arranged in 2 cardboard cases, includes the reproduction of the original poster in 215 x 290 mm format folded in 4. DVD and BLU RAY content: A complete cinema screening with period news, period advertising advertisements, an announcement movie, and the full movie in high definition restored. Movies are 24 frames / second on BLU RAY and 25 frames / second on DVD. THIS FILM IS TODAY RESTORED IN 4K by STUDIOCANAL, FROM THE NEGATIVE IMAGE AND THE NEGATIVE FRENCH SOUND WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE CNC.

AVAILABLE APRIL 9, 2021

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Source: https://coindemirecinema.com/nos-films/ ... brulees-59
Post Posted Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:59 pm
Dr_Jones


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Oh, that looks like very nice set! A 4K restoration will up the image quality considerably compared to the DVD release I already have. Wonder what will be in the booklet.
Only French subtitles though :-(
rinogurr wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:37 pmMovies are 24 frames / second on BLU RAY and 25 frames / second on DVD.
Yeah, that's going to be a bit odd... This means the speed of the movie will differ on BD and on DVD. I had the same experience with the Pet Shop Boys film which was released on BD/DVD set last year. The BD was slightly faster than the DVD release. Here it's the other way around it seems: 99 minutes for the BD, 85 for the DVD.
Post Posted Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:30 pm
shadow


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I really would like to get this, but no English subs makes it a no go. What a disappointment :(
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
Post Posted Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:46 pm
SF01


Posts: 49

Is it really 24, or is it 23,976? I guess we shall see, if the latter, then neither DVD, not BD willbe correct speed...
The DVD as we can see is sped up, pointlessly, instead of just using pulldown...
Post Posted Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:09 am
shadow


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It's going to be 23.976, I guarantee it. But the difference in speed is entirely negligible, it'll come around to mere seconds of difference. The DVD is soednuo because the DVD format uses PAL, not NTSC. The downside if that you change the speed and there's need to fix the pitch of the audio because you speed it up. But this way they're sure that it'll work on all PAL DVD players, even older ones that might not support NTSC.

Also, screw pulldown, just causes a jittery ugly mess. The speed difference from PAL can easily be rectified with some players offering the option to play it at different speeds right of the disc without issues.
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
Post Posted Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:14 pm
SF01


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1. The trend of this screwed up 23,976 is american, I have a lot of EU BDs with EU-made films that are 24,000 fps.
2. You are talking about american 3:2 pulldown, the EU pulldown either duplicates one frame every second that is not noticable, or since the DVD is already encoded as interlaced, because that's the specs, 2 fields every 12,5 frames. On CRT TVs interlacing is not visible, while on HD TVs there is no point in watching DVDs.

It all comes down to stubborn americans creating different electricity frequency to prevent EU manufacturers from exporting their equipment. And what did they do, when EU invented a superior TV system? The slowed down their TV from 30 to 29,970...
As if the cinema couldn't just film in 25fps, all the problems could have been easily avoided...

I sent my rant to the label, because why not.
Post Posted Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:32 pm
shadow


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If the film is of a big international distributer, chances are 99% that the film is not a true 24, but instead 23.976. I don't know why, since the digital age has released the studios of the weird uneven frame rates, yet here we are. But the difference between 24 and 23.976 is pretty negligible, the difference is not something you will notice whatsoever unless you have them run side by side for the entirety. I would prefer it to not have 23.976, but I don't mind it.
And PAL DVD's rarely use any pulldown method, because a single duplicate frame you will absolutely notice throughout because it would create a super noticeable stutter. I have a old DVD of 13 Going On 30 that did that stunt, and good lord I wanted to strangle the person that went over that transfer. The stutter was absolutely dreadful! No thankfully what nearly all PAL DVD have is PAL speed up, what they do is speed the film up by 4%, that gives you the entire film with a nice evenly 25 frames a second (or 50i if you want to be picky). The downside is that you speed it up and there's a difference in pitch if they don't correct this. Which most do, but some don't. I don't have to many issues watching DVD's these days, even not on my 4k TV. They look compressed, sure, but the film can still be watchable without to many issues. Well unless it's a musical, because the speed difference absolutely grinds my gears to no end.

For shits and giggles, I checked out a bunch of my discs just now, both from European and American distributors just to illustrate my point. Film with a * were produced in counties other than the US:

Blu-ray:
  • Doctor Who The Complete First/Second/Third/Fourth Series* - BBC Worldwide - EU - 23.976
  • Pirates of the Caribbean Curse of the Black Pearl - Disney - EU - 23.976
  • The Exorcist (both cuts) - Warner Bros. - EU - 23.976
  • The Exorcist II (both cuts) - SCREAM! - US - 23.976
  • The Exorcist III (both cuts) - Arrow - EU - 23.976
  • Clue - Paramount - US - 23.976
  • La Planete Sauvage* - EUREKA! - EU - 24
  • M* - EUEKA! - EU - 23.976
  • Harakiri* - EUREKA! - EU - 23.976
  • The Drunken Master* - EUREKA! - EU - 23.976
  • Suspiria - Centurio* - EU - 23.976
  • Armour of God II* - Operation condor - 88 Films - EU - 23.976
  • Lost Horizon - Sony Pictures - EU - 23.976
  • It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World (both discs) - Criterion (though identical to the US release minus the region code) - EU - 23.976
  • Chernobyl - HBO/Warner Bros. - EU - 23.976
  • The Ninth Configuration - Second Sight - EU - 23.976
  • The Super Mario Bros. - Second Sight - EU - 24
  • The Phantom of the Opera (1925) - BFI - EU - 24
  • The Adventures of Prince Achmed* - BFI - EU - 24
  • La Belle et la Bête* - BFI - EU - 24
  • Napoleon* - BFI - EU - 24
4k blu-ray:
  • Doctor Who Twice Upon a Time* - BBC Worldwide - EU - 23.976
  • Blade Runner Final Cut - Warner Bros. - EU - 23.976
  • Ghost in the Shell* - Lionsgate - US - 23.976
  • Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone - Warner Bros. - EU - 23.976
  • Labyrinth - Sony Pictures - EU - 23.976
  • The Mummy - Universal - EU - 23.976
  • Spider-Man - Sony Pictures - EU - 23.976
So basically, of all content I own that are 24 frames, they're nearly all BFI (British Film Institute) releases. But three of those are silent films and were recorded at a slower frame-rate, so they're a bit fast and stuttery since there are duplicate frames. Eureka seems to release nearly all their stuff in 23.976, but 'La Planete Sauvage' seems to be the expection to that rule for some reason.
Absolutely everything else seems to be 23.976. Now this is a small sample size of what I own, but I went for a bunch of different distributers from a variety of European countries (UK, Dutch, Italian, German, Spanish and others) both big and small and both EU and US (though I don't have many US releases). Unfortunately, it is what it is, but what ya gonna do. I have no experience with the La Séance releases, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're 23.976, it's just how it's mostly is. Even Criterion, a company that's all about presenting a film in the absolute best way possible and cost a ton of money, don't bother with it.

Long story short, we'll see, only time will tell :p
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
Post Posted Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:18 am
SF01


Posts: 49

Yeah, this is what I fear.
I agree, the music releases are the worst, I own plentiful of BDs from the label Nuclear Blast, they are ALL 24,000 fps, but the infuriaing part is the ywere all shot in 25fps and going frame by frame you can see the ghosting artifacts of the blending and resampling of the frames from 25 to 24, they didn't drop that one frame, they blended them all together, while their DVDs are properly 25, they learned it the hard way, when they released one that was slowed down from 25 to 24 and the audio was noticably weird compared to the CD version they included in the package, to this day they have not corrected it and to this day I hunt the Deluxe Earbook with 2DVDs and 2CDs...
Or the BDs that were shot in 25 and are released as 29,970, those reeaded interlaced fields are also visible...
I will do a test using video with timecode for different fpses and test converting to other values. I'm currently doing a project of recording various concerts on VHS, so that might be useful to see how 23,976 and 29,970 fps are affected.

They keep the 23,976 because it goes neatly to 3:2 pulldown for NTSCrap DVD (I did the C, but I usually do the S with crap's synonym). 24 might neatly divide 48000 samples of audio to 2000 per every frame, but doesn't do so well with 44100, guess what nether 23,976, nor 29,970 can do any of those. But PAL frame rate, that's a prefect number, it gives natural numbers of samples per every frame. It's a bloody 21st cenury, they should have already chosen one standard of 25fps and force everyone to stick with it. If USA could have switched from left-side driving to the right-site driing like most of the world, they can do that as well.
Post Posted Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:30 am
shadow


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They released 25 frame films as 24 without slowing them down and instead blending them together... What the... That... That can't be real, because that's utterly insane!

And I don't think anyone should've been forced into one format or another, shoot for whatever is best and/or easiest for you. However, stick to that format no matter what. Seeing slowed down/sped up content is just utterly annoying. I honestly do not understand that in the US TV's still don't support 50Hz as a standard. Just... Why?!
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
Post Posted Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:36 am
SF01


Posts: 49

1. Yes, they did, It can be seen during the concert, but watch the end credits, epilepsy attack guaranteed...

2. Because they never supported PAL VHS tapes in their VCRs, so that people wouldn't import cheaper releases...

3. I actually got a response from the label, long story short: true 24fps.
Bonjour,

Tous les blu-ray des éditions COIN DE MIRE CINEMA sont en vrai 24 fps, et non en 23,976 fps plutôt utilisé en Amérique a cause du courant 60 hz.

En France, et en Europe, c’est du 50 Hz, ce qui permet le vrai 24 fps sur les blu-ray. 

En revanche, pour des raisons de compatibilité, nous sommes obligé pour les DVD d’utiliser la vitesse de 25 fps comme à la télévision.

C’est domage, mais nous aurions trop de problèmes a faire autrement. Et nous ne voulons pas avoir de problèmes avec les personnes utilisant de vieux lecteurs DVD, ou des TV anciennes. 

De toute façon, COIN DE MIRE CINEMA défend le blu-ray avant tout et prochainement le blu-ray UHD 4K, le DVD étant juste offert au cas ou des gens ne sont pas équipé de lecteurs blu-ray.

Le DVD est un format obsolète et qui ne permet pas la haute définition. Pour nous, c’est dans la même catégorie que la VHS. Il faut vivre avec son temps sous peine de voir la vidéo physique disparaitre un jour. 

Bien cordialement 

Thierry
Post Posted Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:37 pm
shadow


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En France, et en Europe, c’est du 50 Hz, ce qui permet le vrai 24 fps sur les blu-ray.
This bit of their response confuses me, 50Hz in no way whatsoever leaves room for a native 24 frames. TV's simply aren't dependent on the power frequency anymore, same hold true for the US. Their TV's support 24 without issue as well. It's all just industry standard there because of legacy garbage for some reason. I'm always surprised how much criticism PAL/50Hz still gets to this day and that we've never went 60Hz with the step to the digital age. But ironically, they neither have they done so with their 59.97Hz, refusal to support 50Hz in everything and this weird 23.976 stuff...
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
Post Posted Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:49 pm
SF01


Posts: 49

I guess it's because they can speed up 24 to 25 instead of 23,976 to 25...
The moment EU invented PAL, USA should have ditched their inferior NTSCrap tat has lower resolution and some fractional fps that doesn't properly divide the number of audio samples.
But that would cost too much money to the big corporations, so no... Why should they include a PAL decoding chip, that costs, let's claim that american is better and force the EU to support NTSC playback in quasi-PAL60.
Actually if films were shot in 25 like PAL, the US would be skidmarking their pants.
Post Posted Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:28 pm
Dr_Jones


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We're talking about the country that still won't use the metric system and calculate in dog-knees and kangaroo-hops while their temperatures are still calculated in some logarithmic scale.

Meanwhile the metric system is mocked on inferior movies by untalented directors (but that is another discussion)
Post Posted Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:53 pm
shadow


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SF01 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:49 pm I guess it's because they can speed up 24 to 25 instead of 23,976 to 25...
The moment EU invented PAL, USA should have ditched their inferior NTSCrap tat has lower resolution and some fractional fps that doesn't properly divide the number of audio samples.
But that would cost too much money to the big corporations, so no... Why should they include a PAL decoding chip, that costs, let's claim that american is better and force the EU to support NTSC playback in quasi-PAL60.
Actually if films were shot in 25 like PAL, the US would be skidmarking their pants.
They couldn't though, TV's back when PAL was invented was still based on the power cycles, which was 50Hz for us and 60Hz for them. They simply could not change it. 24 frames also wasn't just a random number they plucked out of thin air, it's all just a side effect of how film, television, the power lines, the human eye and frequencies worked. With the digital age they should've have adapter PAL as a standard supported format, just like how they supported NTSC here. Offering both in either region would be the most beneficial, especially because of history. But alas... Maybe some day, but until that day...
Dr_Jones wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:28 pmMeanwhile the metric system is mocked on inferior movies by untalented directors (but that is another discussion)
I'll always be confused, why mock a system that's literally just * or / by a value of ten. That's it. It makes perfect sense, but it's the US of A, so only 9mm makes sense :lol:
27-11-10: Ahoy Rotterdam
22-11-16: Heineken Music Hall Amsterdam
Post Posted Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:13 pm
SF01


Posts: 49

Dr_Jones wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:28 pm We're talking about the country that still won't use the metric system and calculate in dog-knees and kangaroo-hops while their temperatures are still calculated in some logarithmic scale.

Meanwhile the metric system is mocked on inferior movies by untalented directors (but that is another discussion)
Yep, without German scientists and the metric system they would blow up not fly to the moon.
shadow wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:53 pm
SF01 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:49 pm I guess it's because they can speed up 24 to 25 instead of 23,976 to 25...
The moment EU invented PAL, USA should have ditched their inferior NTSCrap tat has lower resolution and some fractional fps that doesn't properly divide the number of audio samples.
But that would cost too much money to the big corporations, so no... Why should they include a PAL decoding chip, that costs, let's claim that american is better and force the EU to support NTSC playback in quasi-PAL60.
Actually if films were shot in 25 like PAL, the US would be skidmarking their pants.
They couldn't though, TV's back when PAL was invented was still based on the power cycles, which was 50Hz for us and 60Hz for them. They simply could not change it. 24 frames also wasn't just a random number they plucked out of thin air, it's all just a side effect of how film, television, the power lines, the human eye and frequencies worked. With the digital age they should've have adapter PAL as a standard supported format, just like how they supported NTSC here. Offering both in either region would be the most beneficial, especially because of history. But alas... Maybe some day, but until that day...
Dr_Jones wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:28 pmMeanwhile the metric system is mocked on inferior movies by untalented directors (but that is another discussion)
I'll always be confused, why mock a system that's literally just * or / by a value of ten. That's it. It makes perfect sense, but it's the US of A, so only 9mm makes sense :lol:
Sure they could, if they could convert from left driving to right driving.
The 24 was simply the slowest they could get away without the eye noticing that the movement is not smooth, they wanted to save $$$ on film rolls.
Offering both standards means creating two separate masters and pressing orders, which also costs $$$.

The classic example: you need 1 calorie to heat up 1 cubic centimeter of water that also weighs approximately 1 gram by 1 Kelvin, in the meantime try calculating that in imperial units and you end up measuring the circumference of the Sun.







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