Blah Blah Cafe, the Jean-Michel Jarre forum

[Equinoxe]

OK, million years ago there were catastrophe by volcanos, destroying forests and other things , which effected the Earth. But these were before the people and nature was able to survive it's catastrophe.

But today the man just waste the sources and meantime he pollute the nature. And the Earth is not prepaired on this !

How do you know???Have you ever read about someone who survived History never lies???the dinosaurs were supposedly wiped out by a meteorite hitting the Earth,How does anyone really know the Truth,unless its recorded In History,even the Scientific evidence that predicted,and I use the Word "Predicted" loosly,is not %100 certain the Earth was supposedly hit by a meteorite,if it was enough to wipe out the dinosaurs then it would have made a Huge impact on the Structure of the earth,yet its still here Billions of years later...and all we have of evidence of the Dinosaurs is Bones,and no traces of rock of the meteorite.

You can't predict anything scientifically even with the largest amount of research,there is always a Reseach/Method and conclusion,a conclusion is ony based on the methods that were used to research that particular problem,these are not always fact,its like saying that Pollution causes Respiratory problems based on people living in inner city areas suffering from an increased chance of Asthma,that could be any number of reasons,but the research would be carried out on the Pollution and not other aspects of Lifestyle and diet or other factors.
One day they tell you Red wine is good for your heart the next they tell you alcohol is dangerous,and that someone who drinks a glass of Red Wine a day is less likely to develop heart disease than someone who doesn't consume any alcohol?????

Ok so that statisitic is based on a survey of a Hundred people who half drank wine the others didn't,but they probably never take into account the persons lifestyle age and totally life history outside of the Drink related research,

in the same way these scientists can't predict the effect of Pollution and Manmade issues they can only research and come to a conclusion by the methods in which they work now.
Its not a Kind of Told you so scenario,where in 50 years time we're all gonna be wiped out...there only merely guessing based on what the methods are researched of today,they don't look over anything like the Earths climate centuries ago and adverse weather condition,because they simply focus on the effects of Pollution,and use that as a catalyst to incite fear.if they wanted to they can relate almost anything to a cause if they used certain methods.so scientific evidence is merely only statistics and not fact,the only thing that is fact is History,because its already happened the future is built on predictions.

[Velodynamic]

The problem with the politicians in this century is that votes instead of princips are most important, so nobody wants to raise the energy- and cartaxes.

That is exactly what's going on in our country right now, despite the promiss our government made in their election campaign to keep the prices stable.
I don't mind but still I don't believe that will change very much over all because politicians doesn't know how to use extra money. If they were used to make pollution free cars I would gladely pay much, much more for my shitty drops of fuel.
The governments are trying to look nice infront of their voters by "trying" to do "something" about the global problems, but all that's happening is they're creating new problems to move around the world. New problems to take care of and that generates new professions and jobs and still the big companies and economical profits are regulating the whole process.

[Jakob BC]

Yes that's also how it looks here.

[Robi]

It is true that meteorits and volcanos for example did bigger catastrophe , but the nature of Earth has always been able to 'reset' , recovering itself.

One word as hundred : not sure there will be good results afterall what things are being happened now.



And shame on politicans, G8 and and loads of companies does not do anything.

[Equinoxe]

The Global warming is going too fast to be just another sign of another iceage. Besides that, the water from the sea can't bee the reason why the inner ice of Greenland is melting faster.
And now, flame me with some comments

Are you aware of what an Iceage is/was,/Causes??Your first line is non sensical...

nobody is saying that Temperatures are not rising,I'm saying that all this phenomenon is not a cause of Manmade Pollution,I havent denied that the earth is warming up or denying that Ice is melting in inner land of Greenland as a result,I was talking about the Polar caps and how water has eroded the majority of it away,most peole don't hear of that,there told that its melting because of What were are putting into the atmosphere and this causes Global warming I'm saying that the earth has a Cyclic change which shifts its energy source this would cause all the shifts in temperature,its natural thing and not manmade.

I don't deny that the weather patterns are changing and that areas once abundant with water are becoming dessert,I've explained in my prior posts why these things happen,If there was an iceage,then we had to have had a cooling period in history for it to be Formed,which will tell you that the earth was covered in a water mass,temperatures shifted that Water form to expand and form Ice particles,and again the areas once covered in Ice have thawed from the earths cycle in atmosphere temperatures as it what we are discovering now,most of which happened millions of year before man.So how do you explain those rising temperatures and there cause????

Ice is not just present,there has to be Water in the atmosphere for it to be formed,and temperatures need to fluctuate in order for it to shift its Form,and this happened many Millions of years ago,and the evidence of history which tells us this,the Icecaps in the North and south Poles and areas which are still covered in Ice to prove that this is History and fact and not built on prediction,when this Ice was water it didn't cover such a large as its Ice form,so when it melts It looks like a very drastic thing because its a Much Vaster area in a solid state,when in water term is probably is less than half the area in Liquid Volumes,

now as History and scientists have discovered that many of the earths land mass was covered in Ice at some stage,the earths temperature and Atmosphere must have heated up or the globe would still be covered mostly in ice,these areas where there is still ice almost invariably are partly on the shadow tips of the sun so don't have the same Distance of orbit to the sun in order to most areas of the globe,Like say Africa or other countries close to the Equator Line this is why they are still frozen,the Earth is a Ball of energy which can heat up and cool down from the Inside,we don't just get our Heat energy from the sun,Volcanic matter is a Internal heat source and EarthQuakes are a way of transferring that energy distribution of heat internally,if the earths plates shift causing the surface to crack and Buckle then the earth surface is capable of moving or shifting its position,which means it moves its energy and heat from the Inside of its core,which would be why certain areas are shifting there Global movements,and weather Patterns which is what the Earths Cyclic energy moves are a common cause of what we are seeing,I don't deny that we as Human Pollute the atmosphere,there are far worse Chemicals and Poisonous Gases Present naturally in the Atmosphere that have been there for many Billions of year that would do have far more disastrous effect to the Earth than what we pump out.

If our Pollution is so harmful,how come its only in the past 20 years that any real Scientific research has been taking place,yet we have known of the Effects of chemicals and known about the Earth's Atmosphere and inner workings for centuries,its not about technology advances because most of what we learnt about the Earth never involved a lot of technology that we have now and most of what we are told today about Global warming is only based on Predictions and not fact.you can only make facts by the History,which the whole prediction needs to have happened in order for it to be History.

It like me saying you ride your bike everyday,on a road,I can sit and watch you go past everyday as a research method,and take all the statistics of how you ride,Your habits and abilities,then say in 3 weeks time you will be knocked over by a bus and suffer a Broken leg,you might you might not,but based on the research methods it would suggest that your 3 times more likely to get knocked off because of my observations on how you ride,but nobody Knows for sure its only guess work.yet at the same time Millions of people effortlessly get to and from there destinations of bikes without a Problem its only once you've been Knocked off that we can say well its a fact and the Evidence seems more beleiveable based on statistics from the research.

I'm willing to listen to everyones thoughts and opinions on the subject,but you can't just say a few Lines without a subjective argument or point to back up your belief.

if you have point of view you should invariably have a reason and evidence of your view, why and what you beleive in it and not just say I think its because of this or that but I don't really know Quite why.This is exactly why Most people only beleive the Hype of the Media,there not really sure of the whole Picture and just beleive a point because its all that were fed.

[Jakob BC]

So we got a dilemma here... trying not to sound rude but your daily thoughts are more true than those you hear from scientists who work with this subject every day?

[Equinoxe]

So we got a dilemma here... trying not to sound rude but your daily thoughts are more true than those you hear from scientists who work with this subject every day?

How do you Know I don't. ....

Most of the Scientific Research that you hear of about the effects of Pollution/Energy use ....Is....Funded by Governments...

What does that tell you???

Yet we have many many,non government funded independant researches...Most of which.....Tell you the Opposite...

When have you seen any of the government funding research challenge any of the statistics and facts if they would they invariably be out of a Job..and you said it already..

there hardly gonna come out out and tell you the whole thing is a lie,after they've been Taxing the hell out of you for years using it as an excuse,and there not gonna put taxes up if thats how they think they can stop the problems of Pollution,if thats how they could irradicate those issues,then they would put taxes up straight away if they dealt in principals

people vote with their Pockets and not principals,and it doesn't matter how much you try and scare people with the effects of pollution because simple fact is most people don't really understand or give a shit about the long term effects,all there bothered about is the Here and now and how rich or poor a Government makes them.,

if the common People we were really Bothered and had any emotional leverage over what they were doing was Killing the Planet,don't you think more people would act more on principals of what they beleive in and try and do something all the time,I do my bit to save energy and use the car less,and recycle thats not because I beleive the effects of Pollution are true,but because really its more beneficial to my personal finances and health,in the long term I'm all for doing my bit,but if was a Principal voting tactic then more people would be inclined to make more of an effort,the sad fact is that its masked by taxation,and if its really as bad as the Research really has us beleive,then it shouldn't be focused on Money it should be based on Fact.which its isn't..there just isn't enough real evidence to suggest that what we do is problematic.the only evidence tha twe have that is fact is history,Read more about the Earth and it conception and evolution and the solar systems before you base your ideologies around what the media and Politicians tell you

Politicians want Votes and if they tell you something its never based on Principals and what they actually truly Beleive in personally but they tell people what they want to hear and that means trying to focus on the Pocket of the Democracy in order to win votes.but they also tell you other things in order to Squeeze your taxes even more once they've won power.

[Jakob BC]

I don't know what you do in your sparetime or at the job, I just didn't have this in mind. I don't know anything else than what I hear and so far nobody has really tried in public to proove the opposite of what the scientists of this project say, so what I believe and many others is very clear. I don't have much personal experiences with how the earth reacts so I am not up for a discussion as I can only say what I have heard. Today the scientists have the gear to say what has going on with the earth many years ago, God may have a better knowledge but we are still aware of a few huge things that happened to the earth

[Antigoon]

These are all lies..

God created the earth in seven days and it is blasphemy to even think otherwise, you will all rot in hell!

Thos Co2 thing is all part of Gods plan to give the earth back to the faithfull, as is aids etc...




(kidding ofcourse), meanwhile I feel very sorry for the Polish PPL, either the North- or the South Polish ones...


Nature will always survive... Not sure about humankind though, but I've seen the population grow from 4 to 5 and 5 to 6 billion PPL in my lifetime alone. If we really want to save the planet we have to stop reproducing in such large numbers... Too bad I like to have sex also and when doing so saving the envirioment is the last thing on my mind (in fact I polute a little by using something made of rubber..., should I stop using those?)

[Jakob BC]

...meanwhile I feel very sorry for the Polish PPL, either the North- or the South Polish ones...

Hehe I have always liked that joke

[Equinoxe]

I don't know what you do in your sparetime or at the job, I just didn't have this in mind. I don't know anything else than what I hear and so far nobody has really tried in public to proove the opposite of what the scientists of this project say, so what I believe and many others is very clear. I don't have much personal experiences with how the earth reacts so I am not up for a discussion as I can only say what I have heard. Today the scientists have the gear to say what has going on with the earth many years ago, God may have a better knowledge but we are still aware of a few huge things that happened to the earth

Jakob

I'm not saying that I'm right and your wrong,just saying that this is what I Believe and know based on what is fact and history and the Research I have to do and have done,don't always assume that what a Government tells you is the whole representation of a phenomenon that they as People don't always understand themselves,How can a Politician be right and Scientists who know the real facts be wrong,its like me trying to tell a Politican how to govern if I don't do the Job or have the Knowledge, and most of what they know is only a tactical move funded by their own parties,not a Principle that they beleive or would like to portray as a personal Issue close to their heart,even if a Politician didn't beleive in the Whole Global Warming issues,they wouldn't tell you they thought it was Fabrication,unless it was a move to gain them Votes from those People they wished to gain support from,when they tax you on these Issues there not going to go against the grain of it even if they know its not fact,because that would also be their downfall,they have the Scientific stats to back them up,but only because they tailored the evidence in there Favour.

It's like the Issues of imigration,a Politician may not agree with migrants coming into the country,and be totally against it but they won't say that in Public because its a voice of racial discrimination,and that means those that beleive in being equal will not vote for someone who victimises against those issues,even though it may represent a small minority of votes,its not politically correct,and it may be something that the Politician feels to be his principals but he can't say it for fear of being branded a Racist.

Your still Young and you will learn a lot along your Life Journey.You are right to express your beleif(s) and what you think is true based on a personal View,but put more of a argument to it. convince Peoplewhy you think your view is right or wrong.A few lines doesn't really sum up what it is that you want to beleive in,Be more passionatte about it... I respect your view and Opinions,but your too brief in what it is your trying to put across..

[Jakob BC]

Well Im not that young Don't underestimate a younger mind (well not meant that I am clever). I do not use several lines to describe what I believe and know in posts like this, simply because those subjects do not concern me that much when I visit forums like, which is mostly dedicated to another purpose, well maybe I should just shut up then but that is also hard but I may not be interested enough to dig more into the subject, and have something more to say.
I dedicate huge subjects like this to my time at school, im more interested in politics, and Im more prepared on that in my sparetime
It looks like you have something to say to the world, so why not make your huge posts serious in public? It will create a great debate eventhough it is maybe just an opinion from your side.

[Dragonchild]

Well, after reading these posts, I think I have a useful opinion..

We can think that humankind destroys the North and the South pole. Why not? We have enough proof to put this thing into words. Just look at the rainforests. It is true, that we destroy them because we need wood to make paper, and in the rainforests thre are enough trees for it. Or just look at your country, your city, your town. Can you walk in the streets without smelling the exhaust fumes or seeing the rubbish? You can't don't you? You hate the gas because you feel that it destroys your health when inhaling it. And we can imagine that it destroys the nature, too.
It can be some truth in it.

But now see what happened long long time ago. There were cold ages and there were hot ages. There was a pretty hot age in human life, too, somewhere in the prehistoric ages, as I read it in some book. But, to my mind, nobody cared about the far East end North. They just suffered from heat and waited for rainy days.
After the great discoveries, people get wider sight for the world and man is a kind of animal which likes to compare things. Like industrial revolution and the global warming.
This is not a bad thing, I think it's good trying not to make more toxic gases because there is enough of them already, and produce more rubbish. It is a good thing we can do... not for the nature, but for us, humans. Nature can heal itself, but humankind has to hel itself too, with decrease the number of the people of consumer society. Just for us. For the Humankind.

A lot of people think that they help the nature by drawing our attention to these harmful things. But they not. They help Us.

As for the global warming and melting of the icecaps. If you convince my foregoing post, and this topic, you'll see that we can think a lot of things. We make rubbish, and produce gas, so we are shameful animals, and all things what we do is wrong. We can think that we destroy nature while going to a rainforest ot the desert or any place where Human is not frequent, and scaring the animals there. We take the air at the North pole and it starts melting..
I will not speak about politicians, because I'm not into global politics, first I want to understand what is happening with the government of my country, but it's awful that they care only about their little and unconderned life and no about the happiness of the whole Humankind. But there's nothing we can do, people just need to be more intelligent to see what is the best for Humans. Because we are human, and not lions, so we have to solve the human problems and not the lions' problems. Or the wolves'. Or something.

I'm finishing because I'm starting to speak nothing... I can't tell more than the others have told before me.

That's what I think of this.

[AnDrOiD]

Too... many... words... in... this... thread.

[Jarp2600]

Too... many... words... in... this... thread.

Well... you can translate 'em all to 1's and 0's